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SAN ANTONIO — In the closing hours of his last general manager meetings atop baseball operations for the Cardinals, John Mozeliak had to dart “off campus” for an interview Wednesday night with a job candidate. He usually does not leave the host hotel much during these meetings, but then again, not much is usual about this year for him and these meetings for the Cardinals.

They annually arrive as a shopper — either tinkering with additions via trade or prepping for their offers to free agents, as they did a year ago for three starting pitchers. This year, in the resort’s lobby, the Cardinals joked with one agent that they had no reason to meet.

They’re not adding, not now.

They’re remodeling.

But, Mozeliak said before leaving, that doesn’t mean they’re bailing.

“I still think we’re going to be a better club than people think,” Mozeliak said. “I think we’ll surprise a few people. It’s my final year, so I hope we can win a few games.”

While much of the opening weeks of their offseason have focused on what the Cardinals will look like in the front office and on the financial ledger, the first significant move of how they’ll appear on the field in 2025 came Wednesday. The Cardinals are shifting All-Star catcher Willson Contreras to first base and designated hitter as his primary positions. Mozeliak said it is “unlikely” that Contreras catches many games. That achieves the Cardinals’ stated goal — like clearing playing time for younger catchers Pedro Pages and Ivan Herrera — and signals an answer to a significant question facing the Cardinals this winter:

Which vets want to stick around?

One of four veteran players with no-trade clauses who sought to be Cardinals because of the club’s history of contending, Contreras told the club that he would like to stay with ������Ƶ and not seek a trade. Mozeliak confirmed that exchange.

He has talked with the three others: Nolan Arenado, Sonny Gray and Miles Mikolas. Mozeliak declined to detail their wishes. Mozeliak said at least one player was open to the club exploring interest from other clubs.

Arenado’s agent and Gray’s agent declined to comment on the conversations, leaving that for the Cardinals. 

Gray told the Cardinals that his preference is to remain with them, two sources with knowledge of the talks described. Some of the things remain that made the Cardinals appealing to Gray a year ago when he signed a three-year, $75 million deal. And the right-hander has expressed interest in seeing where this “reset” and commitment to younger players leads.

The Cardinals have not advanced any trade discussions to a point where they can go to a player with possibilities. As this month progresses, the Cardinals are expected to gauge which teams have interest in Arenado and what they will offer, multiple sources described. At that point, the Cardinals can take information about potential suitors to Arenado for his consideration.

There are three years remaining on Arenado's deal, which is complicated by deferred money and cash from the Colorado Rockies.

The pitch Mozeliak has for current players is similar to why he believes they may be a “better club.” The Cardinals have made the financial cuts they sought by declining options, letting free agents go and shedding more than $60 million from this past season’s opening day, 26-player roster.

They have opened avenues for younger players like Herrera, Pages, Lars Nootbaar, Jordan Walker and Andre Pallante for guaranteed playing time. They have also, internally, sought to step back from their long-running brand after two consecutive seasons of falling short of its October-or-bust goal.

“I do feel like the pressures of always thinking you have to get to October, play in October, is tough for some of the younger players,” Mozeliak said. “And I think now with the notion of expectations are a little lower, I think a lot of these younger guys are going to be able to breathe and play with a little more freedom. That’s when we’ll get a sense of really, ‘Where are they?’ I feel like from a pure clubhouse standpoint that might be a relief.”

An aspect Mozeliak is referencing without saying is what the Post-Dispatch has previously referred to as the club’s “opportunity gap.”

The urgency to win at times led to decisions that limited playing time for younger players, whether that was chasing a center fielder like Dexter Fowler in free agency, trading younger players for shorter-term answers or being impatient with the performance of a young player when the team was struggling.

“We were always rushing to find the next better thing,” Mozeliak conceded Wednesday. “And now we’re going to say: No, we’re going to give it a little time to see what we really have. We’re going to let them go play and find out if they can make those adjustments, and let’s see if they can do it for us instead of us giving up on them and they’re not doing it for someone else.”

While moving Contreras from a position where there is youth to another position where there could be youth, the Cardinals see that as consistent with the goal.

And, Mozeliak stressed, better for Contreras’ career.

“We think not catching will make him a better hitter,” Mozeliak said.

The idea spawned from the team’s medical and training staff following a year when Contreras was limited by injury to 84 games. Those included an opponent’s swing fracturing his left forearm and a pitch breaking his finger while he was batting. When he was healthy, Contreras was the Cardinals’ leading hitter, and before the fractured forearm, he was charging toward another All-Star Game invite.

Contreras finished the year batting .262 with a .380 on-base percentage and .468 slugging percentage, good for an .848 OPS. Those were superb numbers for a catcher. At first base? Still superb.

When compared with everyday first basemen in the majors, Contreras’ average would rank ninth, his on-base percentage second and his slugging fourth. Contreras’ OPS would rank fourth right behind World Series MVP Freddie Freeman’s .854.

Contreras has played 11 games at first base in the majors and fewer than 52 innings, so defense will be part of this development. Mozeliak insisted that moving Contreras does not contradict the youth focus. Left-handed batter Alec Burleson will also see time at first, and the lineup can accommodate both with either appearing at DH.

“When you look at our club, obviously you can see a team,” Mozeliak said. “It’s not like, ‘Oh, boy, you have no bullpen.’ We have people. We have guys. Our team is not going to look all that different, right? There will be some changes. Part of this is going to be a guy like Pallante is going to get the opportunity to be a starter. Obviously (Steven) Matz is someone that we are hopeful he can rebound physically. We traded for (Erick) Fedde, and we think a lot of him. (Rookie Michael) McGreevy, right now, I don’t think it’s necessarily like guaranteed he’s in our rotation just because of who we have in front. But it wouldn’t shock me if he’s on the team in some form.”

Or, as the winter plays out, if he’s in the rotation.

Mozeliak said reducing the payroll further would give the Cardinals some “breathing room” headed into spring training. They will explore trades involving Matz and, if moved by the offer, Fedde. Agent Scott Boras on Wednesday said he expects the free-agent starters to move first, ahead of relievers, and if that market is rich, the Cardinals have cost-effective options to trade. The Cardinals will not be active in the free-agent market for starting pitchers.

If there’s an exception, it’s veteran Kyle Gibson, with whom the Cardinals want to keep in touch even after declining his $12 million option.

Gibson’s deal was one the Cardinals sped toward during the GM meetings a year ago. This year, the meetings had a different feel and different purpose for the Cardinals — like slipping away from the site to conduct interviews for staff, not seeking out agents to talk pitching staff. They’ve made their direction clear to peers and others, but when asked Wednesday how hard he planned to press the “reset” button, Mozeliak referred to his final year not being a lost year.

The Cardinals seek to raise a roster, not raze one.

“I’m not like looking to blow this thing up,” Mozeliak said.

And then he had to go.

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The pitcher wasn’t pitching. In fact, the pitcher couldn’t pitch. Yet the pitcher’s actions stuck with his coach more than a decade later.

“Even when he was hurt, he was a great teammate,” former Yale baseball coach John Stuper, a Cardinals 1982 World Series hero, said of left-handed pitcher Rob Cerfolio. “I remember him walking around practice after he had shoulder surgery. And walking around during games with a sling on his arm — on his left arm — and he’s trying to keep pitching charts with his right hand. Just any way that he could help, he was willing to do it. And that’s what you’re getting.”

The “you” in that last line is you. Like, you — the ������Ƶ Cardinals fans who are yearning for positive change within the organizational structure. Well, ������Ƶ recently hired Cerfolio, 32, as the assistant general manager who will oversee development and performance. In other words — he’s the guy who will reimagine and then renovate the minor league system. He’ll make the hires and guide the process after a successful decade with the Cleveland franchise.

And Stuper is the in the middle of the Venn Diagram — he knows Cerfolio’s portfolio better than most and, as a onetime Cards minor leaguer and eventual World Series champ, he knows “The Cardinal Way” quite well.

So as we learn traits about Cerfolio, what stood out to Stuper about the former Bulldog pitcher? Well, that he was a bulldog. Via phone, Stuper passionately described the southpaw’s hunger to succeed.

And of course, there is the Yale aspect.

“At the Ivy League level, we talked between smart guys who play baseball as opposed to baseball players who are smart,” said Stuper, the rookie who famously pitched a complete game, 13-1 win in Game 6, which kept the Cards alive in the 1982 World Series.

“And obviously you want the latter, not the former. And that was Cerf. A really smart guy. ...

“But one of the things that has impressed me the most in my talks with him is character. I mean, it really matters. ... And when Cerf was interviewing for this job, he told me he met so many great people. High-character people in his view. And that was one of the main things that swayed him to take this job. And I mean, is there a better barometer than that, than character? I don’t think so.”

Of course, a key person in the hiring process was Cardinals executive Chaim Bloom, who will take over as president of baseball operations after the 2025 season. Bloom went to Yale, too — although he didn’t play baseball. But Stuper has developed a relationship with Bloom, primarily over text. One trait Stuper says Bloom and Cerf share? They’re unafraid to admit they don’t know everything. They want to soak up new concepts. They want to pick brains.

So over the years, certain college sports programs have developed a reputation. Penn State is informally “Linebacker U,” thanks to the likes of NaVorro Bowman, Sean Lee, Lavar Arrington and Jack Ham. Kentucky is “Point Guard U” with recent studs such as Shai Gilgeous-Alexander, De’Aaron Fox and Rob Dillingham. Even Mizzou called itself “D-Line U” with the likes of Darius Robinson, Charles Harris, Kony Ealy, Michael Sam, Aldon Smith and Sheldon Richardson.

Well, Yale’s baseball team is “Front Office U.”

Stuper, 67, coached at Yale from 1993 to 2022. Among his ballplaying alums are Cerfolio, Craig Breslow (who runs the Red Sox), Mike Elias (a former Cardinals scout who now runs the Orioles) and Charles Cook (assistant general manager of the Astros).

For years, Stuper discussed the famed “Cardinal Way” with his Yale players.

Stuper believes that longtime Cardinal instructor George Kissell, who inspired and instilled this mindset and playing philosophy, “has influenced probably more baseball players, even to this day after his death (in 2008), than anybody else.” By phone, Stuper spoke glowingly about the Cardinals’ dedication to fundamentals. He even mentioned that Kissell determined there were 17 different ground balls that could be hit to a second baseman.

So yeah, Stuper has often done some preaching while teaching — explaining what made the Cardinals so great was this brand of baseball and attention to detail.

“Sometimes you don’t realize your players are listening to you,” Stuper said with a laugh. “But apparently (Cerfolio) was. One thing he said was I talked a lot about the ‘Cardinal Way’ and playing the game right. And that, to me, that’s what the Guardians did. And he was a huge part of that — I mean, he was the director of player development.”

Stuper said Cerfolio is, naturally, a modern thinker of baseball regarding analytics — but “I think Cerf has some old-school to him, too. And that combination, to me, is the way to go.”

This should help as the Cardinals, who missed the playoffs the past two years, search to rediscover their way.

“(Cerfolio) texted me way early in the process (with the Cardinals),” Stuper said. “You know, we just talked back and forth a little bit. And I didn’t say this to him. I didn’t want to influence any decision, because it was really hard for him to leave Cleveland and he loved his staff and all that. But I was secretly sitting there going — man, I hope he goes to where the birds sit on the bat.”

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As Michael McGreevy experienced the growing pains of introducing a pitch he didn’t completely develop over the previous offseason into regular-season games with Class AAA Memphis this past season, the Cardinals prospect knew he needed to trust it despite some frustrating results.

With a cutter added to his arsenal, McGreevy posted a 5.81 ERA and allowed a .298 batting average through his first 11 starts for Memphis. But as he continued to take his turn in Memphis’ rotation, McGreevy saw just how effective that new pitch could make him once he got comfortable with it.

The improvements as he found a grip on his cutter led him to post a 2.72 ERA and kept hitters to a .224 batting average across 20 outings — four of which came in the majors — to end the 2024 major and minor league seasons.

“I think it’s just more confidence in myself,” McGreevy said in mid-September of his cutter’s strides. “The first month and a half was more development. And obviously you want to compete, but it was more like, ‘Hey, we’ve got to trust this process with the cutter and what we’re trying to accomplish.’ Once we were able to kind of catch our stride, it was just back to my normal self.”

The 24-year-old takes that development into the offseason as he prepares for the 2025 season that could begin for him a regular role in the majors as the Cardinals head for an organizational “reset” that will focus on youth.

“It’s something that we could build off of instead of trying to find like we did last offseason starting from nothing,” McGreevy said. “Just continuing to improve the (cutter) that is just another weapon to lefties. I’m excited to see where it goes.”

McGreevy began working on the cutter last winter following an offseason conversation with senior minor league pitching coordinator Tim Leveque. The pitch became a larger emphasis early in spring training after talks with Cardinals manager Oliver Marmol and pitching coach Dusty Blake. The idea for the cutter was to help McGreevy combat left-handed hitters, who batted .327 and slugged .503 against him in 2023 while he pitched in Class AA and Class AAA.

Through his first 11 starts this past season, left-handers batted .331 and slugged .551 against McGreevy, the Cardinals’ first-round pick in the 2021 MLB draft.

While he went through the shaky results, McGreevy received some advice from his Memphis teammates to find the right grip for his cutter. The advice he sought from his teammates led him to test out righty reliever Kyle Leahy’s slider grip. McGreevy began toying with with Leahy’s slider grip and noted that “turned into somewhat of my cutter grip.”

As his cutter grip began to form following the shaky start, McGreevy held left-handers to a .248 batting average and a .421 slugging percentage over 16 minor league starts. McGreevy’s strikeout rate went from 17.2% through his 11 starts to begin the year to 23.9% through his final 20 games, including his time in the majors following a July 31 call-up.

“I’ve done a lot of stuff with my own pitches,” Leahy said. “Mike just asked me what I feel and what I’m thinking about and what my thought process is, so I just told him, and ... I guess a couple of things worked out for him and helped him a little bit. I’m happy that I could help.”

Earlier this year, McGreevy described the need for a cutter as a “protect pitch” that’d help prevent left-handers from sitting on his curveball and slider. Although his curveball (.267 batting average allowed in 11 minor league starts through the end of May) fared better than it did in the final 16 starts he made (.364 batting average allowed), McGreevy’s slider kept lefties to a .170 batting average in his last 16 starts for Memphis after allowing a .316 average through his first 11.

The strides he made in Memphis translated to the majors in the form of a 1.96 ERA in 23 innings across four outings — one of which was a relief appearance. Opposing hitters batted .193 against McGreevy, who had a 3-0 record for the Cardinals. McGreevy’s 36 matchups against lefties in his brief sample of the majors combined for a .206 batting average.

As a whole for McGreevy in 2024, the former first-round pick went 12-8 with a 3.75 ERA and kept opposing hitters to a .690 on-base plus slugging percentage (OPS) across a career-high 173 innings between the majors and the minors. The cutter helped him boost his strikeout rate from 18% across 24 Class AAA starts in 2023 to 21.6% in the 27 Class AAA starts he made this past season. While in the majors, McGreevy collected 18 strikeouts and used his cutter as the put-away pitch for 33% of the batters he fanned.

“I think (early in the season), we were talking about it, and I’m like, yeah, I’m still messing around with it. It’s not great. Walks are up because I can’t really command it that well,” McGreevy said of the cutter. “But it’s been huge to lefties. Just seeing the growth is super-encouraging.”

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SAN ANTONIO — As part of the discussion with the club about how he wanted to stay in ������Ƶ, the Cardinals are electing to move Willson Contreras on the field to clear playing time for a pair of young players.

Contreras will split a majority of his time in the coming season at first base or designated hitter, Cardinals exec John Mozeliak said Wednesday at the General Manager Meetings.

"Having him play more first, more DH," Mozeliak said. "By doing so, we think from an offensive standpoint it strengthens us. ... Our medical team recommended it. If he really wants to extend his career, they feel it will be best for him. Catching is a demanding position. I do think, as we look to the future this gives us the best opportunity to give these younger players that chance."

Mozeliak was asked if Contreras is no longer a catcher.

"I would say very unlikely to see him behind the plate," Mozeliak answered.

Less than a week after the Cardinals dropped salaries from 2025 by declining the options on three pitchers, the description of their plan with Contreras is the first of the offseason that gives a window into their on-field plans for 2025. Ivan Herrera and Pedro Pages will be the catching tandem for the Cardinals, pending an unexpected or yet-to-develop trade. 

Alec Burleson offers a left-handed hitting complement at first base for Contreras, and Mozeliak suggested that one would be the DH when both are in the lineup.

That frees up the priority spot at Class AAA Memphis for Jimmy Crooks at catcher, as the Post-Dispatch has previously reported would happen.

Contreras is one of four veteran players who have no-trade protection, joining starter Sonny Gray, third baseman Nolan Arenado, and right-hander Miles Mikolas. Mozeliak said he has spoken with all four players about the direction the Cardinals are taking to get feedback from them on if they want to remain with the club and be a part of the "reset."

Since the end of the season, Contreras directly expressed his wish to stay in ������Ƶ with the club and others.

Moving to first base dovetails with Contreras' wish to remain with the Cardinals and the Cardinals' stated goal of opening playing time for younger players.

"We anticipated carrying three catchers regardless," Mozeliak said. "We think for his career we think he'll be better off doing the first base/DH model."

Contreras, who will turn 33 in the coming season, hit .262 with a .380 on-base percentage and a team-best .848 OPS. He was limited to 84 games by two fractured bones. A bat shattered his forearm while he was catching, and he was hit by a pitch late in the season that ended his year with a fractured finger. The first injury, which took place as he reached to receive a pitch, came just as he was making a push to be an All-Star at catcher.

Contreras is entering the third year of a five-year, $87.5-million deal with the Cardinals that he signed after Yadier Molina's retirement. Contreras openly said he was intrigued by following Molina as the Cardinals' catcher, and he paid tribute to Molina with the cleats he wore on his first opening day.

He has been limited to 148 games at catcher in two seasons with the Cardinals due to injuries and the team's clunky and ultimately brief move of him to DH early in the 2023 season.

Contreras has played 11 games at first base in his big-league career, started four of them, and manned the position for a total of 51 1/3 innings.

Mozeliak cautioned that there are still months before opening day and that decisions could shift depending on the direction the Cardinals go with trades. Those conversations are likely to accelerate in the coming weeks as the Cardinals spent a lot of time this week at the GM Meetings interviewing for their open positions in the front office and player development.

Much more coverage from San Antonio and the GM Meetings coming Wednesday evening and in the pages of Thursday's Post-Dispatch.

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With two hits in two games for the Glendale Desert Dogs, Cardinals prospect Thomas Saggese ended Tuesday as the Arizona Fall League’s leader in batting average with a .410 mark through 17 games.

Saggese’s efforts in the continuation of a rain-suspended game from Sunday and a regularly scheduled game, both of which were against the Scottsdale Scorpions, included a double in the continued game and a single in the latter. The double from the 22-year-old infield prospect was lined to left field with a 108.6 mph exit velocity, per Statcast.

The pair of hits gave Saggese 25 in 61 at-bats heading into Wednesday. He sits in third for most hits among AFL hitters. The only two players in the AFL with more hits than Saggese by the end of Tuesday were Tigers prospect Josue Briceño (28) and Rangers prospect Alejandro Osuna (26). Only Saggese and Briceño (.406) have batting averages above .400.

Along with leading in batting average, Saggese’s .532 on-base percentage paces the AFL. Saggese, who drew a walk in the continued game, is fourth in on-base plus slugging percentage (1.155) and tied for fifth in total bases (38).

He was one of three Cardinals prospects to play on Tuesday for Glendale.

Catching prospect Leonardo Bernal entered the continued game in the top of the second inning as a pinch hitter for White Sox prospect Michael Turner and remained in the game at catcher. Bernal, 20, went hitless in three at-bats. All three of the balls he put in play had exit velocities above 95 mph, per Statcast. Two of those were hit above 100 mph.

The hitless game dropped Bernal to a .229 average and a .584 OPS through 10 games for the Desert Dogs.

Outfield prospect Nathan Church started in right field and batted second in Tuesday evening’s regularly scheduled game. Church, 24, collected one hit — a single with a 103 mph exit velocity — in three at-bats.

Church ended Tuesday with a .341 batting average and a .372 on-base percentage in 12 games.

SAN ANTONIO — During a conversation about how “hypercompetitive” the industry has increasingly become beneath the surface of the big league standings and in the advanced arts of spending on coaches, experts, facilities and cutting-edge technology for player development, Cleveland’s president of baseball operations brought up a club that not too long ago was a model for producing young, contending talent.

“From the outside looking in, some of the best, most competitive Cardinals teams are those that had guys who came through their development pipeline, through the Cardinals’ way,” Chris Antonetti said Tuesday. “And they ended up transitioning from young amateur or international players and ended up becoming really good major league players.”

The Cardinals want to get back — really, catch up — to excelling at that.

And Antonetti has one of the best views how.

As a Midwest, smaller-market team with revenues now buffeted by an abandoned broadcast contract, Cleveland won its division and reached the American League Championship Series. The Guardians succeeded with a largely homegrown roster, a keen sense for amplifying young pitchers, and a player development program — one from which the Cardinals are plucking an executive.

This week’s general manager meetings at a golf resort outside of San Antonio are the first for the Cardinals’ new executives, future president of baseball operations Chaim Bloom and Rob Cerfolio, the recent assistant general manager put in charge of development and performance. He joins the Cardinals after a decade in Cleveland, where he most recently oversaw their player development.

“First and foremost, an incredible teammate and a great leader,” Antonetti said. “Does an incredible job of bringing people together to surface the best ideas and then find a way to implement them effectively. Really led a lot of our recent developmental initiatives across player development.”

The Post-Dispatch asked if Antonetti could offer an example.

“Nope,” he said, laughing.

Bet the Cardinals know.

Bet the Cardinals want to do too.

Rival executives and some agents who have spoken with the Cardinals this week described them as in “a transition phase” coming out of a second consecutive year without a playoff berth and into the final year of John Mozeliak’s tenure as president of baseball operations. They are trimming millions from the major league payroll even as they pledge to reinvest in player development. That remains an area where smaller-market teams like the Guardians or mid-market clubs who punched above their weight like the Cardinals can find an edge on the big spenders. It is also where the Cardinals lost ground in recent years.

It was slow for the Cardinals as changes to the industry happened fast.

“When I left the Cardinals in 2011-12, analytics were basically statistical analysis,” said Orioles general manager Mike Elias, who left being a scout for the Cardinals to key roles in two rebuilds from rock bottom, in Houston and Baltimore. “So really, the only way it was happening in player development was, ‘Is this guy good or not? Do we promote him?’ Things like that. It was putting statistical information in front of players, coaches and decision-makers.

“And then about three or four years later, we had an explosion of Trackman and tracking devices, and teams started building predictive models from all the tracking information. And then you also had a private sector of player development explosion. You could go to a pitching lab and see some of the data points and use all the new high-speed cameras. It’s been an absolute technology revolution. And I’d say it started 2014-2015, and it’s become really pervasive in the last four or five years.”

Elias, whose team has reached the playoffs each of the past two seasons, then listed all of the necessary spending — cameras, radar installations, computer infrastructure, facilities at the Dominican Republic academy that could accommodate the new tech.

Years of struggling yielded high draft picks the Orioles used on All-Stars Adley Rutschman and Gunnar Henderson or recent No. 1 overall Jackson Holliday. Elias said it was the development structure the Orioles had that helped Henderson rework his swing. The picks may get headlines, but the player development structure gets the results, he countered.

“I think it’s been an enormous factor for us,” he said. “More than the high picks.”

Echoed Antonetti: “For us, we recognize, to be successful, we have to excel in those areas, so we spend a lot of time and energy and resources in those areas trying to create the best development environment that we can. The way in which we’re going to build rosters are going to be guys that come from our player development. That has to be the nucleus of our team.”

To illustrate how competitive the development race has become for clubs, Antonetti recounted the soaring growth of staffs and the costs to fill them. He estimated when he started with Cleveland the team had eight members of the front office and around 130 people in player development, minors and scouting. Those numbers are now 50 in the front office and 240 elsewhere in baseball operations.

Minnesota’s president of baseball operations Derek Falvey, another team feeling the broadcast-revenue pinch, recalled his early days on the job presenting Twins ownership with a breakdown of the additions needed for player development, from staff to tech to facilities.

“One thing that goes underreported to some degree across our industry,” he said. “I know we focus a lot on payroll, but when I got to Minnesota I put on paper for our ownership the investment and infrastructure spending for player development, scouting, some of our R&D (research and development) spaces, major league operations. That’s a real investment. It doesn’t come out publicly in the sense that it’s not on your payroll. But it’s real. And it’s a recurring investment you need to continue to add to over time.

“We’ve definitely doubled our investment even over that period of time,” Falvey said of the past few years. “We’re not alone in that. A lot of teams have done that. We’re kind of keeping up.”

As an example, the Twins are one of the clubs with a motion-capture machine.

A few clubs have them for several levels, if not all. The Twins have two.

“We have to make very specific targeted investments,” Falvey said.

Elias noted how during the early, accelerating growth of spending on tech for modern player development, it was also competitive and difficult to find coaches comfortable using it. That pool of experts has grown. For the Cardinals, that same time period was when they had reductions in staff or did not fill some roles within the minor league system. Part of the modernizing they intend to do, and Bloom is charged with leading, is making up that ground — with staff and with tech. They are thinking about purchasing their first motion-capture device.

“The main thing is you have to make sure the information is being used and used well, and that costs money in terms of people and expertise,” Elias said. “That has raised the cost of player development overall throughout the sport. But ultimately you think there is some (return on investment). You have more young players that you’re able to enjoy before they reach free agency. It seems like it pays off.”

For the Cardinals, the goal goes beyond young players before they become free agents — it’s about getting back to developing impact players they can debut and then use a financial edge on similarly sized markets to keep into their free-agent years.

A few weeks after the big-spending Yankees lost to the bigger-spending Dodgers in the World Series, Falvey agreed with the premise that the gap between large and small market teams is narrower when it comes to spending on player development.

He was asked if that remains a place where $1 invested can yield production worth $10.

“That’s a really good way to put it,” he said. “And from where I sit there are some areas pretty clearly where, in my mind, the investment off the field in the development strategy or plan is ultimately going to yield more than that same dollar in free agency. We need to always think about how do we get the best bang for our buck.”

That becomes even more vital if the broadcast bucks shrink.

Minnesota has already had a full year of that, and the Twins scaled back spending on the payroll by more than $20 million. Its rights contract negated midstream, Cleveland is entering its first year as an MLB Media team with those reduced revenues. The Cardinals could be a year away from doing the same — if not sooner. Getting back to homegrown roots is retro for the Cardinals, but how it’s done these days is new. No wonder, as they pull back to focus on retooling, they’re pulling from another club’s front office for guidance.

The expectations even sound familiar.

“I want to be clear: Our goal is no different,” Cleveland executive Antonetti said. “We want to field a competitive team that is capable of winning our division, making it to the postseason, and then finding a way to win that last game. Regardless of what the other circumstances are, that does not change. ... In the end, no one cares about what our payroll is. They care about how many wins did we get? Did we advance in the postseason? Did we win a World Series?”

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Cardinals sign Packy Naughton to 2-year, minor league deal, complete other roster moves

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Goold's chat: With economic factors, how long can Cardinals ownership 'stomach' a rebuild?

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SAN ANTONIO — Beneath the surface of the Cardinals major-league machinations in the past week, the club has re-signed a handful of minor-league players to maintain depth and avoid losing them to free agency.

Packy Naughton, who had 26 relief appearances in the majors in 2022 and brief appearances since, signed a two-year, minor-league deal with the Cardinals to give him time to recovery from injury, rehab with the team, and then contribute in the second year of the deal.

Naughton, 28, has had a series of elbow surgeries in recent years.

The lefty tore a ligament during his recovery from a flexor tendon injury, he disclosed on Instagram on Monday. He had reconstructive surgery on the elbow in July, and he has been rehabbing at the Cardinals' player development facility in Jupiter, Florida. He also previously advertised that he got his real estate license. 

The recovery from the most recent surgery is usually around 12 months, and that should have him pitching in competition toward the end of the coming season.

Since 2022, Naughton's time in the majors and time on the mound has been limited due to injuries. Used sometimes as a spot starter for the Cardinals, Naughton is 0-6 with a 4.98 ERA in 37 games (seven starts) and 59 2/3 innings in the majors.

In addition to Naughton, the Cardinals also re-signed the following minor leaguers from their system ahead of the deadline that would have made them free agents: RHP Inohan Paniagua; RHP Victor Santos; C Chance Sisco; C Gavin Collins; RHP Dionys Rodríguez; RHP Augusto Calderon; INF Ramon Mendoza; RHP Angel Cuenca; 2B/OF Darlin Moquete; and RHP Leonardo Taveras.

Paniagua, 24, went 7-9 with a 3.84 ERA in 25 games (20 starts) for High-A Peoria. He had 123 strikeouts and 50 walks in 115 innings. Sisco, 30, is a veteran backup catcher who returns to the Cardinals. He helps them maintain depth at the position as they prepare for Jimmy Crooks to be the starter at catcher in Class AAA Memphis with Ivan Herrera, Pedro Pages, and Willson Contreras in the majors or part of trade discussions.

While shedding players from the major-league roster, the Cardinals have sought to maintain depth and quantity in the minors as part of their goal to retool their player development programs and lean into younger players and even a churn of pitchers in the coming season.

Rom removed from 60-day IL

Well ahead of Monday's deadline to reinstate all players from the 60-day injured list, the Cardinals moved lefty Drew Rom to their 40-player roster.

With all of the moves over the past week, that puts the roster at 36.

Rom, 24, missed the entire 2024 season due to a shoulder injury experienced in spring training that required surgery to repair. He is expected to be ready for spring training, though may start the camp with a conservative schedule coming back from injury.

The Cardinals acquired Rom from Baltimore at the trade deadline in 2023. He was the centerpiece of the deal that sent Jack Flaherty to the Orioles, and the lefty Rom made his major-league debut a few weeks later for the Cardinals. 

Cardinals have company in cutting costs at GM meetings as fuzzy TV picture disrupts MLB

With decisions already made, Cardinals have trimmed $30 million from potential spending on 2025, and the cuts could go deeper, pending resolution of TV broadcast questions.

Cardinals 'captain' Ken Boyer back on committee ballot for Cooperstown consideration

All-Star third baseman and World Series champion, whose number was retired 40 years ago by the Cardinals, is on a Hall of Fame ballot for the 21st time.

Goold's chat: With economic factors, how long can Cardinals ownership 'stomach' a rebuild?

As front offices gather for the beginning of the GM Meetings, Post-Dispatch subscribers had concerns and questions answered from San Antonio.

SAN ANTONIO — The Cardinals arrived at Major League Baseball’s annual general manager meetings — the first set piece of the industry’s offseason — having started the winter exactly as advertised by trimming payroll and still waiting to determine how much they have yet to go.

Other than “less,” the Cardinals are unsure what their payroll budget will be for 2025, and as they gather with other clubs in a posh, golf course-adjacent Marriott resort this week in Texas, this much is clear:

Not everything is going to be bigger in these parts — because the Cardinals are not alone.

An uninvited elephant at this year’s meetings and weighing in on this year’s market is the ongoing collapse of the cable-sports model. What once was a bonanza of revenue fueling and fanning team spending over the past decade has become a slow-motion sinkhole with Diamond Sports Group in bankruptcy court. That has prompted MLB to take over the broadcast of a handful of teams, and it’s braced to do the same for others, including, if necessary, the Cardinals, though for a significantly reduced revenue.

About half of MLB’s 30 teams are impacted in some way by the potential of reduced revenues due to the regional sports network (RSN) unraveling, and that has many teams still waiting for clarity on what they have to spend. Executives with two teams echoed that sentiment, and multiple agents described it as a clear factor for some teams in the marketplace.

The Milwaukee Brewers, a team that had its cable deal end and will be produced by MLB at lower revenues, declined a $10.5-million option on All-Star closer Devin Williams. The Brewers retain control of his rights and can re-sign or trade him, but the move was done to reduce his salary.  

Due to the RSN unknown, Cincinnati’s president of baseball operations Nick Krall said Monday he does not yet have a budget for his payroll and, like the Cardinals, is unsure when he’ll get one.

Decisions throughout the game reflect this uncertainty.

In the past week, the Cardinals declined options on Kyle Gibson, Lance Lynn and Keynan Middleton to shed $30 million in potential commitment from next year’s roster. As expected, the Cardinals declined to make any qualifying offers at one year, $21.05 million to their free agents, including former National League MVP Paul Goldschmidt. That means they will not get a compensatory draft pick if Goldschmidt signs elsewhere.

John Mozeliak, president of baseball operations, said the Cardinals seek as much “flexibility” as possible with their roster, in part because of revenue concerns.

During the GM meetings — which tend to be a staging ground for future trades or signings — one interest for the Cardinals as they begin a “reset” and pivot toward youth will be gauging the trade interest in their high-dollar stars. That group includes Nolan Arenado and Willson Contreras. Both have no-trade clauses and can dictate where they’ll accept going, if anywhere at all. Starter Sonny Gray is another veteran with a stout contract and a no-trade clause, though he’s shown an openness to remain with the Cardinals.

Mozeliak said those discussions have to be a “two-way street” with the players who signed or came to the Cardinals expecting a perennial contender.

The Cardinals expect to hear from teams interested in closer Ryan Helsley, catcher Ivan Herrera and lefty Steven Matz, among others.

The Cardinals also have interviews to conduct and jobs to fill.

As Chaim Bloom begins his yearlong task to renovate, innovate and upgrade the Cardinals’ player development program before he takes over as president of baseball operations, he has vacancies throughout the minor league system. The Cardinals expect to hire a farm director and a director of performance soon and from there begin the additions of coordinators and coaches.

The Cardinals have pledged to shift some of their baseball operations spending to the minor leagues, and Mozeliak estimated an increase of 8%-12% on player development. That boost in investment includes the cost of new technology and facilities as well as expanding the staff. The Cardinals recently hired a new assistant general manager to oversee development and performance, and Rob Cerfolio’s first public appearance with the Cardinals in that role is these GM meetings.

But the more significant change in spending for the Cardinals comes from preparing for a reduction in ticket sales following two disappointing seasons and a cut to their rights fees.

The Cardinals agreed to a 15-year, $1.1 billion deal with Fox Sports Midwest in 2018. Per that contract, they are owed around $78 million for 2025, according to Post-Dispatch reporting and research. FanDuel Sports Network, the new name of the RSN once called Bally Sports and Fox Sports, has approached the Cardinals to renegotiate the broadcast deal for 2025 at a reduced rate. Those talks are ongoing. What’s at stake for the Cardinals is significant.

The Cardinals have part ownership of their broadcast partner, and as a “joint venture” contract, they are not directly involved in the bankruptcy hearing. They are influenced by its outcome, which will be clearer after a hearing late next week.

The Cardinals are “in a real bind,” one industry executive said, because their bond with their RSN goes beyond the broadcasts to signage and space at Ballpark Village.

Teams like the Cardinals are estimating a cut of at least 20% in their rights fee revenue for the coming year, which could be around $16 million. It will be a deeper cut if they have to leap to the MLB Media option. MLB will produce the games and work with local cable outlets to distribute the games, but the MLB Media model hinges on subscribers to a streaming service and the elimination of local market blackouts. The revenue comes from subscribers. Commissioner Rob Manfred said this past summer that San Diego, a team dropped from Diamond Sports and picked up by MLB, had 40,000 subscribers.

At $20 a month for six months, that’s less than $5 million in subscriptions.

Now set to launch a direct-to-consumer model with MLB’s aid, Minnesota renegotiated the final year of its deal with Diamond Sports for 2024. The Twins got less than the planned $54 million this past season, the Star Tribune reported. That was the leading reason they cut $25 million from their opening day payroll from 2023 to 2024.

The Cardinals had 26-player, opening day payroll of around $175 million for this past season, and that included the injured list that featured Gray, Tommy Edman and Middleton. Through trades, free agency and the recent option choices, the Cardinals have shed $66 million from that payroll. Gray is due a $15 million raise for 2025. Addition Erick Fedde is owed $7.5 million. And arbitration-eligible players are due raises, with record-setting Helsley set for the largest increase, of around $4 million to $5 million.

With the raises and contract increases, that still puts the Cardinals at least $35 million off last year’s payroll. Trades would only whittle it down further.

A total of 13 players received qualifying offers from teams Monday, and that group ranged from headliners Juan Soto, Corbin Burnes, Pete Alonso and Alex Bregman to Arizona first baseman Christian Walker and Reds starter Nick Martinez. Those players have two weeks to accept the one-year, $21.05 million offer or assure their former team will get a draft pick when they sign elsewhere. The Cardinals have said they do not plan to pursue any free agents that will mean losing a draft pick.

As they steer toward youth, that’s a cost they want to avoid.

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Two emails new to my inbox can provide a helpful roadmap to handling this Cardinals offseason.

One was a pitch from a betting website that wanted us to bite on the Cardinals being named as one of the three most likely teams to sign free-agent first baseman Pete Alonso. (What, no Juan Soto?)

Another was an announcement from the Cardinals about their March 24 exhibition against their Class-AAA affiliate at AutoZone Park in Memphis. The Battle of the Birds is back.

If you think the Cardinals are going to sign Alonso or any other big-name free agent this offseason, you are probably setting yourself up for disappointment. The Cardinals are considering offloading high-priced players at or beyond the age of 30. They are not in the business of acquiring more of them. Alonso, who turns 30 next month, would not align with the Cardinals’ youth movement.

It’s not because Alonso once threw the baseball from Masyn Winn’s first hit into the stands. It’s not because Stubby Clapp once tossed him like a sack of potatoes. It’s because he’s going to get paid a bunch of money over a bunch of years.

Instead of dreaming about Alonso (or Soto), consider mentally preparing for a reality in which multiple Cardinals who participate in that Memphis exhibition months from now have more experience in places like AutoZone Park than they do places like Busch Stadium. This offseason? It’s going to feel weird.

It has become tradition around here to pick a favorite free agent or trade target and hope the Cardinals see things similarly. Sometimes they do. Sometimes they don’t. But we debate until the decisions are made, and the decision is usually made to add at least a significant piece or two.

It’s part of the fun, the waiting and the debating. I once beat the drum for Bryce Harper so bad I had to get Tommy John surgery. I don’t regret it. I thought he made a ton of sense and would have been worth the massive investment.

Now? There’s not a single star free agent or two that fixes this team, and the Cardinals don’t sound interested in going that route even if there was.

Instead, the main intrigue of this offseason seems set to revolve around which notable names — Ryan Helsley? Willson Contreras? Nolan Arenado? Sonny Gray? — could go via trade instead of arrive. Dream big for sudden surprises if you like, but I won’t encourage it. What I’ll do instead is remind folks that previous offseasons of trying to fill holes via free agency hasn’t worked out too well at restoring deep postseason runs, and while there have been some big-time trades scored relatively recently, like deals for Paul Goldschmidt and Arenado, the decline of the player development pipeline has been the lead contributor to those two potential future Hall of Famers accomplishing next to nothing in the postseason during their shared time here.

So yes, the Cardinals are smart for returning to their player development roots, though heaping credit upon them for having to restore a strength they let erode seems unnecessary. Let’s at least make sure they can indeed restore the former strength. Their future depends on it.

For a team that cares about setting a pragmatic budget and adhering to it, getting back to creating answers from within is a must. The team, to its credit, has been candid about that being the focus of the immediate future, more so than building the best possible roster for 2025.

For those who like to get fired up about player development infrastructure buildouts, this is their offseason. Go crazy, folks.

For everyone else? It’s going to be pretty quiet.

What I’m most interested in seeing this offseason is if the Cardinals make moves thanks to incoming president of baseball operations Chaim Bloom that look better months from now than they do in the moment. Maybe Roddery Munoz becomes an example? Maybe he becomes a name to know after being added as a name next to no one knew.

The instant online response to the Cardinals grabbing the former Marlins pitcher from the waiver wire was predictable. Snark and sarcasm. Fans are in a frustrated place. I get it. Munoz had a 6.53 ERA through 17 starts. He allowed a whopping 26 home runs in 82.2 innings. There’s a lot to not like, no doubt.

But he’s also still 24, still a rookie and still in possession of a fastball that averaged more than 95 mph and a strikeout percentage that reached nearly 19% in his major league debut season. There’s a lot to work with.

Munoz is a project. Giving him a shot costs next to nothing. Seeing him capitalize upon it would bode well for the Cardinals getting back to seeing value others miss — and then getting more out of talent than others can.

What the Cardinals can make of Munoz is not front-page fodder, but it’s more newsworthy than wasting your time with Alonso and other pricey free-agent daydream fodder. In the past, the Cardinals have been guilty at times of overselling offseasons before underdelivering.

They are not doing that now. Payroll is going down. The future is taking priority over the present. Those realities have been clearly communicated. If you wind up disappointed in prominent additions not made, you can’t blame the Cardinals for misleading.

There can, though, sometimes be a silver lining to publicly lowered expectations.

If enough things go right, pleasant surprises can emerge.

Ben Frederickson

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SAN ANTONIO — The site of the annual General Manager Meetings is stirring to life this morning near the lobby and officials with all teams are continuing arrive.

And so does a deadline.

This afternoon, teams must decide whether to present a qualifying offer to any of their free agents. Shaping some of those decisions is the topic that will likely cast a shadow over this week in San Antonio: the uncertain broadcast rights situation for teams around Major League Baseball. The Cardinals are not alone in not yet knowing how much revenue they'll have from their broadcast deal with Diamond Sports Group.

All they can count on is it will be less than expected.

You may have lots of questions about that. The Cardinals, their rivals, and most front offices throughout baseball do as well.

I'll do my best to answer yours from what I've been able to gather from them.

This chat is coming to you live from the meetings, and that does mean there will be some times when I have to step away to conduct an interview or seek out some reporting. It also means this is not likely to be a marathon chat, so the briefer the questions the better. We have all winter for filibusters.

As always a real-time transcript of this chat will be reproduced below the window in the same text format as this sentence and articles throughout .

Questions are not edited for grammar or spelling.

They are ignored for vulgarity.

Saddle up. Live from not too far from the Alamo, let's get this chat going.  

Gordon: What are the chances the Cards do move on from Matz and Mikolas? In your opinion, should they?

DG: They'll explore the interest in both, and there are going to be teams interested in Matz, for sure. Look at the deal that Michael Wacha just got, and consider that Nick Martinez is out there too from the Reds, and Matz at $12-million for a starter is going to be appealing for many of these teams looking to fill out a rotation but unsure of the rights revenues coming their way. Plus, Matz doesn't have the no-trade protection that Mikolas does. Mikolas is going to be the more difficult of the two to move because of his salary, because of his power to shape any deals, because the Cardinals may have to cover some of that salary to pull it down toward ... well, let's just use Matz's salary as the target, of $12 million. A lot will depend on what the offers are for Matz. The Cardinals will be listening, and their goal is to accumulate young players. Reducing salary will be a bonus.

My opinion? Still trying to wrap my head around the Cardinals stated goal of withdrawing from urgency for the future, near or far. The Cardinals are out to rebuild around youth, so it makes sense if that's their plan to trade both. They both can help a team cover innings, and with Matz there's the versatility that he can also be a reliever, and at the price that's a helpful for a club and the Cardinals should take advantage of that return.

Tbird728: Hi Derrick! Welcome to San Antonio! I've lived here for 45 years. Get down to the Riverwalk and have yourself some great Mexican food!

DG: Took a brief detour to the Riverwalk last evening. Have not been to San Antonio since the paper sent me here to help cover Mizzou in a Big 12 championship game. So it's been awhile. Eager to explore, if time permits.

Charles: Anything interesting going on yet

DG: Other than this chat?

cbow: Is Chaim Bloom at these meetings, or is Mozeliak still in charge?

DG: These two things can both be true. Chaim Bloom is part of the limited group of execs representing the Cardinals here -- MLB sets the limits, not clubs -- and John Mozeliak is still in charge and leading baseball operations.

(Hold on. The chat just disappeared. One second please.)

Tackleberry: Would you categorize DeWitt as overly sentimental? He is obviously a smart individual, but he seems to have a very hard time letting go of people who aren’t bringing value to his organization anymore. I’d love to know if he operates like this in his other businesses. Loyalty is an admirable quality, I’m in sales so I can appreciate so

DG: The description of DeWitt for as long as I've covered the team and before I joined the beat was how reluctant he was to fire people. He has talked about this -- not from a loyalty aspect, but form a continuity aspect. He values that. He's even gone so far as to say that he will lean toward talent over experience and work to grow that talent in the role. He does this on the business side, according to people who know him well. And, yes, continuity can manifest as loyalty when the preference is to avoid firing someone and just reassign them or move them.

Move them to a different role. That has happened often, as you probably know.

I find it interest that I'll get a question like this in the chat, and then there will also be criticisms that Cardinals ownership doesn't put the same value on the Cardinals as fans, don't care about the history, etc., etc. Hard to be sentimental and also not care about those things, right? Or is there a way those two things can coexist, and you'd like to explain?

Uncle Redbird: Should we look at the "Battle of the Birds" as an intrasquad game? 😁

DG: It always has been.

Boogerloo: The two highest payroll teams competed in the WS....do we need a salary cap? Dodgers can outspend to field the best team....thoughts?

DG: My thoughts, as I've tried to share here and on the podcast, is that this is the first World Series that is the culmination of the consolidation of talent, and that is a concern for the industry. If we see all of the talent starting to gravitate to the larger markets, larger payrolls, then you'll see a self-feeding issue -- more free agents will want to go where they can win and also get paid, and then more and then more. You get these galacticos teams that aren't foolproof from the volatility come October but they are limiting the probabilities of how they lose. So, yes, it's something to watch. Yes, it's something to address. No, a salary cap won't necessarily fix it.

Part of that is because a salary cap is a non-starter for the players' union and would lead to a long, awful, not good for the industry work stoppage. That means finding another way to make it possible for all teams to keep their stars, for more teams to have access to the highest-dollar talents coming from other countries, and -- absolutely for more teams in the mid-markets to spend more to keep their talents.

SE Steve: If another team wants Matz let them have him. You can get more value burning a pile of cash.

DG: That is incorrect.

Bob the Subscriber: Would you be surprised if the team trades Fedde?

DG: This offseason, yes. This coming July, not necessarily.

Joliet Dave: Whatever broadcast deal the Carfs are in next year, will my MLB internet package still show them? Or yet to be determined?

DG: How teams are broadcast on MLBTV will not change. That has always been separate from this -- with the exception of what it costs and the blackouts. What will happen for streamers in the ������Ƶ market is that the blackout will be gone. The larger goal of the Cardinals is to get the blackouts gone from their shared regions, too. That will show up on MLBTV by giving more fans access to Cardinals through the universal app. But, say, you're a Cardinals fan in California right now and you subscribe to MLBTV. This isn't going to change for you unless it changes the price point.

Simple.10: OGDG- based on your conversations, can you elaborate on what it means to not make contending for a championship the top priority?Are the Cards planning to field a competitive team?

DG: It's a great question, truly. And it's something I'm asking to get more clarity on. The answers they're giving is this: The priority is youth and young players and opportunities, and the payroll will be smaller. These are the primary goals, and building a roster to win the division at higher cost or more veterans is not. But does that mean they are comfortable sinking toward the bottom of the division, if that's what happens? That does not appear to be the case. Spoke with someone recently and they outlined how the Cardinals could spend the winter looking like the Brewers of last winter, and then emerge as a better team as a result. We'll see. And this is a question that I'd like to hear them expand upon -- with their actions, not just comments. What we know is their priorities are youth, opportunity for youth, and trimming payroll.

jm: could you envision Baker and Burleson sharing time at first if Goldy moves on? Seems like a platoon with the two of tehm might be successful, your thoughts?

DG: That is the most obvious option for the Cardinals. There is some internal discussion about what the means for the defense, how valuable defense is at that position, and so on. One other candidate who has not been mentioned by the Cardinals but should be kept in mind ... Nolan Gorman at first base.

Tackleberry: If I were Mikolas I would veto every trade. There’s an excellent chance that if he sticks around Mo gives him a third 2-year extension. A final farewell gift to the fans who want him gone.

DG: Such a contract would involve the input of Chaim Bloom, per ownership and Mozeliak. They've both said that any deal that dips into Bloom's time as president would involve him.

South City Steve: The Cardinals have lacked a true identity for most of the last decade, they’ve been neither a power pitching nor power hitting team. Given the fact that the young players at all levels don’t seem to provide an obvious roadmap for a future identity, is there a sense as to what kind of team Bloom wants to build?

DG: A player development machine that excels at identifying and producing pitchers. That's the goal. From there? Hard to tell the future on who will be available, who they'll draft, etc., etc. What the Cardinals do want to be their identity is suffocating fundamentals and restoring an edge they had for developing contributors, evaluation innovation, and winning habits before arriving in the majors. I think you make a good point about identity, and I'm not sure that it's possible to predict because teams draw their identity from their results. A question that has to be answered in the coming years -- near term -- is whether the Cardinals have a team that can capture interest from fans, capture the imagination, generate enthusiasm, etc. That is going to take personality and production as much as identity.

Craig: Derrick, how involved will Chaim be in making trades? I'd think he would have some input, and am assuming he was left out of the Carlson trade. That trade, and the O'Neill trade, were not good returns for the Cardinals.

DG: What a gig! Get credit for trades that work and don't take any heat for what didn't. Chaim Bloom

has offered insight on deals over the past year, since his hiring. All deals. That said, all deals -- good, bad, indifferent -- were finalized by the people hired to do such things: Mozeliak and Girsch.

South City Steve: Unless Goldy is willing to sign a 2022 Pujols ($2.5m) contract, I don't see how this organization can, in good conscience, bring him back. They have griped endlessly about finances and they have viable options in house. Bringing him back, even at a 2021 Waino $8m + incentives deal, is this organization talking out of both sides of its mouth.

DG: I disagree. So here we are.

Millo Miller: Derick,greetings to you on this Monday and as always thank you for your time. If the Cardinals do deal Arenado, my question is what type of defensive 3rd baseman are Gorman and Walker? It seems like the chats always focus on their offense. Thank you

DG: Brendan Donovan could be the third baseman. He's been a strong defensive player there when given a chance. Nolan Gorman has played well there in limited innings, and he has familiarity with the position, of course. When Jordan Walker played third base earlier in his minor-league career, the evaluation of him was that he had a strong arm and his most likely position in the future was corner outfielder.

First Time Caller: FYI, a real-time transcript is not producing below the chat window. Even with a refresh.

DG: I just checked. It's there for me on two different browsers and on the mobile.

Thanks for your patience. Had a few things come up here in San Antonio, but also down in Jupiter as spring plans take shape. Had to step away from the chat.

JB: Even if the Cardinals don't add from the outside to replace Gibson, Lynn, and Goldschmidt, couldn't they still make the case to Gray, Arenado, and Contreras that they should stay because the team is good enough to win the NL central?

DG: They could. That is what I heard from an agent I recently spoke with. So not even someone with the Cardinals.

marpdagn: Hey Derrick. To read the national scribes, other than Helsley and Fedde of the Cards who MAY BE on the block, none of the other candidates (Arenado, Contreras, Gray to name a few) have any surplus value, and the Cards would have to eat money to facilitate a trade of those players. Do you see it the same way?

DG: What do Gray, Arenado, and Contreras have in common that Fedde and Helsley don't?

No-trade clauses.

The thing about no-trade clauses, is they're not secret and so any interested team knows that the Cardinals are entirely at the wheel of these deals. The player is. And that gives the other team leverage -- the way the Cardinals had with the Arenado trade. Everyone wonders why Colorado put in $50 million in that deal... well, what was their alternative? Arenado's list of teams that he would agreed to go to was limited and so were the Rockies choices. The alternative was keeping that salary? The Cardinals used that leverage. Teams will do that, too. With Fedde and Helsley it's all about wooing the Cardinals to make the deal, so of course it will cost more.

When it comes to Contreras and Gray -- their contracts are appealing, market-appropriate and so on. But if you're an interested team and you know that the player has to sign off on a deal, wouldn't you want some salary relief as part of that just because you can? The Cardinals don't have all of the leverage there and would have to sweeten the deal to get out from under the rest of the contract. I hope that reporting and that knowledge of how deals comes together is what's informing all reports.

marpdagn: Based on what we've been hearing, can we assume that the rotation next year will look something like Fedde, Pallante, McGreevy, Liberatore & Thompson?

DG: No.

marpdagn: Do you perceive Siani or Scott II getting the majority of PT in center next year?

DG: Don't know yet. Wide-open competition as they head toward spring training, and the leader currently depends on who you ask.

cbow: So the salaries of Lynn and Gibson should easily cover the cost of coaches and technology they should already have

DG: Sure, but that's not really the calculus the Cardinals are doing. We're back in this same spot as we've been in previous chats:

The hit is the TV deal.

The financial hit is the TV deal.

Yes, the Cardinals are advertising an increased investment in player development and all that, and increase in spending there of 8%-12%, though that is subject to change. That is real. But when you're talking about why they're trimming payroll it's about the TV deal.

The Cardinals are contracted to be paid about $78 million for their rights in 2025 -- and they're not even into the richest part of their TV deal. And, as of right now, Diamond Sports is trying to renegotiate that deal down, and significantly down. There an estimate that it will be a 20% reduction, or so, and that Cardinals are also tied as business partners, too. Keep that in mind. So we can talk all you want about the cost of coaches and cost of tech -- and we should -- but when you start tying it to the options keep in mind that the Cardinals are calculating for selling fewer tickets and taking a $16 million or more hit in TV fees. Always, always, always keep that in mind.

Travis W: If players like Contreras and Arenado aren't on the '25 roster, who steps up as the "face of franchise"? My assumption is that it would be Winn, but that feels like a lot of pressure to put on a guy that young. Am I forgetting someone obvious?

DG: Winn would be a good one. Gray would still be with the Cardinals. Brendan Donovan. Lars Nootbaar already has an international profile that includes an adidas deal and commercials in Japan. Those would be candidates -- even if Arenado and Contreras are elsewhere.

Matt S: Derrick, long time listener/reader from Colorado Springs! I appreciate all the work you do keeping the fans informed, and you're the reason I have a subscription! Are there any players who aren't high salary who the cardinals could look at moving that would bring them valued prospects? (Donavan, Nootbar, Herrera, Siani, Romero, Pages)

DG: Helsley would still qualify in this category. When you compare production and role to salary, he's way up there. From your list? There are teams interested in Donovan. That hasn't changed. The Cardinals see him as more likely to be of valuable to them than what he could get in return. Does that change? Sure if a team overwhelms them. Maybe that happens if a contending club wants to add a Edman-type and goes to the club that had a few Edman-types through the years. But not as likely. Teams are going to approach the Cardinals about Herrera. For sure. Herrera is out of options, and teams see what the Cardinals have at catcher with three on the active roster and Jimmy Crooks on the way. Crooks is set to be the priority starter Class AAA Memphis, and that suggests that Pages is going to be in the majors. Could that change with spring performance? Sure. But we don't have that info at the moment. Teams will see that depth, look for the move for the player who maybe doesn't fit. (A sidebar to this conversation is whether Cardinals see Contreras as DH 1/3 of the time or 1B at any of the time ...)

Peter in Cali: Hey Derrick, longtime reader and subscriber, but rarely chime in on these chats. Thanks for all

DG: Thanks for the note, Peter. Much appreciated.

Craig: Derrick, on the podcast with Kevin you were making a point that you believe the Cardinals don't need to adopt the mindset of a full rebuild with losing seasons ahead. You thought they were close to competing with the Brewers for the title. Could you elaborate on that a little? The podcast went a different direction, but I was really interested in hearing your thoughts on that. Thanks.

DG: Sure. I'll try to do so in summary because we could go on and on with this. The Cardinals won 83 games this past season with a largely absent offense, two superstars who had sub-average seasons, and a deficit of damage with runners in scoring position. By many measures they outplayed their performance in the standings, and a lot of that could be traced to the success of the bullpen, its use, and that the starters provided enough innings consistently to not undermine that strength. OK. So, let's say they start from that. They're not all that far from augmenting what they were to improve the offense (add a proven, strong outfield bat), maintain the bullpen (follow that same recipe, not the same names), and keep together the rotation (pick up Gibson's option). That would be a enough to compete in the NL Central. They are not going that direction. That leaves them a real question on whether they'll have the rotation that a team needs to consistently contend week to week to week or if they end up doing it by committee. Either way, they had a team that you could see where the needs were, where the improvements could be, and how those could happen t be a contender. Instead, they have uncertainty of the TV deal and a reason to reposition.

Thanks for listening to the podcast.

Zach: Hi Derrick i know that other teams will likely have an upper hand, but isn't Roki Sasaki exactly the type of player the Cardinals should be targeting in the retool?

DG: Exactly that type of player, yes. It's a good point you make. Not sure they'll have a chance at that exact player. Several things are working against them that aren't financial when it comes to the bidding, their offer.

JoJo Disco: So the Cardinals are wanting their payroll reduction to match dollar-for-dollar the money they are losing from the TV revenue?

DG: They haven't said that, no. Let's see if their action match that. But it's not clear yet -- because they don't know the hit they'll take on TV. That's the issue teams are having.

JB: Is the offseason workout program that helped Quinn Mathews add velocity this season something that the Cardinals think can be replicated with other pitchers?

DG: They have before. They didn't create the program for Mathews. They borrowed from other successful programs to inform and then individualize the plan for Mathews.

TomBruno23: Did you make it to the Crowes? Fun show even if Chris, like the rest of us, is starting to show his age a little bit.

DG: Alas, I did not. I regret not being able to go on that day, but I had a much better option and got to visit the kid at college.

Jim D: Hello Derrick, are there any young players, pre-arb or arbitration players, that you see getting a contract extension this offseason?

DG: That hasn't been in the conversations, not for the pre-arb players. That is something that usually, for the Cardinals, develops during spring training. And that is also something that will, as mentioned above, definitely involve Chaim Bloom. The potential candidate there is Masyn Winn. As for arb players? The Cardinals will explore what a multi-year offer looks like for Brendan Donovan. If there is a leading candidate to emerge this winter with a deal that covers a few years of arbitration it's Donovan, in the same way that Tommy Edman did.

Charles: They can not be that broke

DG: What meaning of the word "broke" are you using this statement?

Larry M: That Tink Hence is a rule 5er this year seems to indicate that signing high school age players requires immediate emergence to MLB or risk losing the player early in his journey. Is this the correct interpretation.

DG: It is not. By being protected from the Rule 5 draft, Tink Hence joins the 40-player roster. All that means is he now has to be optioned to the minors. He now has three option years before he has to stick in the majors or go throw waivers. That would make him 25 with seven years as a professional ballplayer. Sure seems like enough time for a HS player to prove himself without a rush.

Charles: They act like they are broke the made 374 million before expense

DG: I don't get the sense they act like they're broke. They are acting like they're revenues are going to take a hit, and as with any business that forces a change. Some of that is ticket sales. That is the message fans have wanted to send. And it's sent.

Also "before expense" is doing a lot of heavy lifting in your sentence.

Wally: Hi Derrick, thanks for the chat. Do you anticipate any finished deals at these meetings?

DG: The GM meetings usually lay the groundwork for deals that happen in the weeks to come. It's unusual for deals to be completed here. While a lot of things about this winter may be different for the Cardinals, their fans, and the reporters covering the team, there's no sense -- as of today -- that the pacing will be different and this GM meetings will produce something more immediate.

Jojo Disco: Assuming we are buying this idea that their huge major league investment took resources from the minors (I am not), realistically could this current predicament have been avoided?

DG: It is difficult to answer a question when you admit you don't even believe the premise of it. But I'll try.

Yes.

Fan1941: Nice to talk baseball on a rainy Monday in STL. Thanks for being here

DG: You bet. It was rain here in San Antonio as well.

stebo: just visited and loved the Arizona League innovation for challenges on pitches. Challenge can only come from the batter, the pitcher or the catcher, not the dugout. After the umpire informs everyone of the challenge, a very quick "Wimbledon-like" ball or strike display is on the big screen. How soon before we see that at the major league level?

DG: Early reviews have been good. The earliest it looks like it can get to the majors would be 2026, and that would take it going into the minors this coming season. More likely it goes from AFL to minors in the coming year, then gets looked at and tried during spring training 2026 in the majors and then see it in 2027? That would follow a more predictable, safe path. A strong belief in the tech and positive reviews galore might hasten that timetable.

The Faus: I am curious why the Dewitts don't keep Mo as a silent advisor on his final year and put Chaim Bloom as the face of the Cardinals this upcoming year? I think the fans would give significantly more grace to the rebuild and support ������Ƶ (which is what I want) and help with ticket sales. ������Ƶ has little faith in Mo and ESPN ranked us 4th from the worst club in 2025. Thoughts?

DG: The way ownership explained that when asked is that this year gives Bloom an entire year to implement the player development system/mechanism that he wants and get it up and running before he moves to the majors, where that will demand his time. The Cardinals did not want to turn the whole thing over to Bloom and have him spend a whole year auditing the minors and then shift to running the majors without being daily, hourly active in installing his suggestions in the minors. This way they give him the full year to oversee those changes and then he takes over the majors. This also allows Mozeliak to complete his contract as a nod to his career, and it also doesn't saddle Bloom with whatever the results of this season are, good or bad.

Jim S: Hello Derrick. Why, if BDW Jr. is such a honk for "player development", did he not question why the staffing in the minors did not increase to, at least, the pre-pandemic levels? Was the bottom line of getting by with less that important to him? Surely he had to realize that trying to do more with less wasn't going to produce satisfactory results in the long run.

DG: The answer is actually quite simple: They expected it to yield better results in the majors. They did not expect to get one division championship and two quick exits from the Goldschmidt-Arenado area. I hasten to guess neither did you.

Travis W: Do you think the Cards will take the opposite approach to this offseason's FA market? Instead of immediately filling needs, waiting until Spring Training approaches and looking for bargains at positions in which they need depth?

DG: Or, not make many free agent moves at all. They do not appear to be putting their feet in the starter's block ready to take off into the market. The market opens later this evening and maybe the message they send agents this week will be different -- but so far agents do not expect the Cardinals to be actively in pursuit of free agents to start the offseason.

JoJo Disco: If they strip down the roster and focus on playing the young players, what becomes the measuring stick for Oli's perfromance at the end of the season?

DG: Did players improve.

JoJo Disco: Would you mind making the argument from bringing Goldy back? Please don't cite veteran leadership because Lynn, Gibson, Carpenter, and Crawford were on the 2023 roster for a reason.

DG: His defense at a position that is active in most groundball outs, and a young shortstop who is exceptional defensively and should have someone who can handle his throws on the other side of it. The upside of the likely defense offensively.

Uncle Redbird: The Matt Slater departure seems inopportune at a time when investment in scouting and acquiring global talent is even more essential for this club. Do Chaim Bloom and his connections have influence in the Asian talent market?

DG: The Cardinals still, as of last check, have a full-time scout there, and they also have another scout who visits there. Bloom will inherit that structure. If he expands on it, we'll find out.

Wally: So would you say Oli is a lame duck, one more year manager, kept to save money?

DG: I would not say that.

Redbird Farmhands: Hey Derrick, when should we expect those hires under Cerfolio to happen?

DG: Imminently. That's the goal. There are a handful, though the two that will get attention are farm director and performance director.

Wally: Will the Cardinals be a popular club at these meetings based on their situation?

DG: Sure. But most teams talk to all teams while here.

The Faus: Yes. That’s the way the owners explained it but do you share my concern for this year? I am very concerned. Hope I am wrong

DG: I understand your concern. Whether I share it or not -- honestly, not my place. And I don't feel one way or the other about it beyond that it's going to make for an interesting year with plenty of stories to write and explore. My goal is to provide the information and reporting so that you can come to that conclusion as a fan.

chico: Hi DG,My question is about the Cardinals minor league complex: Are the DeWitts paying for that entirely,or do the Marlins pay for some,and Florida pay for some,etc? Can you explain for us,please. My feeling is that if the Cardinals are paying for most of it,doesn't that come out from the big leagues expenses?

DG: The money for the renovations there are coming from three sources: the Cardinals, the Marlins, and the county. There are $108-million in renovations planned, but that price tag has gone up in part because of the delay. The Cardinals are Marlins must pay for 38% of the upgrades, split evenly. That will run about $20 million to $25 million before any recent increases. So you could be looking at $30 million. Plus, the Cardinals and Marlins are on the hook for 100% of the overages, and there will be overages, and the Cardinals may be braced to pick up that cost.

I understand there's an eagerness to separate big-league expenses from this, an that is definitely how it's covered, been covered, and how it's relayed. But all teams have a baseball operations budget. That's really what we're talking about.

Travis W: If Amendment 2 passes, how will that affect the finances of the Cardinals going forward? Do they see a revenue stream from local sports betting? I don't really know how it all works, but since all of the state's pro teams are in favor of it, I assume they get something out of it.

DG: That will open up another stream of revenue. They will be able to have a sportsbook at Ballpark Village, same as the Cubs have outside of Wrigley. They will benefit from that by charging rent, and then there will be the bounce in advertising and foot traffic and whatever downstream impact those things have for giving fans reasons to come downtown, purchase food, etc., etc. The Cubs have a $100-million, 10-year deal with DraftKings, just as a reference point for revenue.

Big Red One: Why can't the Cards get younger and lower payroll, and still go for the division title? It's there for the taking.

DG: Great question. Why can't they?

Cam: How will the overhaul of player development impact the youngsters on the MLB roster? Will these new hirings/development models have any impact on the development on guys like Walker, Gorman, Winn, Donovan,Burly, etc or is there development overhaul really aimed at improving the talent down at the minor league level? Will the guys at the MLB level develop primarily through playing time or is there some new analytical voices/processes that will be added that they didn't have before? Sorry if that's multiple questions jumbled into one comment. Thanks for the chats!!!

DG: All of the above. An increase in investment in tech would benefit the majors, too. Either because it will be at the ballpark in the majors or it will be available to them during spring training and their recovery from injuries. The Performance Department influences all levels, and the access to more coaches, more experts, more data, more recovery, more more more benefits all players, as much as they're looking for more being available. Consider one readily available example: If the Cardinals do add the motion-capture tech, then the MLB pitchers will have that in the same way that Steve Matz recently did, and so will Hence, Lin, Showalter, Mathews, Hjerpe and on and on. The whole goal of what they're doing -- or should be doing, or say they're doing -- is to benefit the entire organization, the top of it included.

Jackie: His defense was not particularly good in 2024, Derrick. You know this. So it is unclear why defense would be the reason to bring him back for his age 38 season. He printed a 0 DRS and a 0 OAA, which basically places him in the middle of the pack of all MLB 1B who played at least 50 games at the position.

DG: Understood. But the fan base also saw Jose Martinez play first base and how much things changed a year later when the Cardinals had Goldschmidt at first base. This was the answer to the question. And, yeah, that 0 Defensive Runs Saved is about midpoint of the everyday first basemen. There were 21 first basemen who had more than 800 innings at the position, and nine were negative DRS at the position. That puts 10 ahead of Goldschmidt.

tom: do the hires of jon jay and brant brown and skip sitting out 2025 leave open the possibility that bloom hires skip to be the manager in 2026?

DG: I would put those two and two together to get 55, no. It's not that direct. We'll have to see how this year and how interest in Schumaker takes shape over the next year.

chico: All of the Missouri teams want sports betting,may I ask why and how that helps the teams?

DG: Another revenue stream, and there's a chance it's a sizeable one. For the Cardinals, it's a competitive element because some of their rivals have sportsbooks on site that they get revenue from. Follow the money. Leasing. Advertising. Licensing. And then, on the periphery, is wanting clear regulations for something that already exists all around them.

Ryan: With the players that left to Free Agency and 20% reduction in TV fees and the 8-12% whatever cost, that assumes payroll would be around $140MIL. Plenty to win the NLC with assuming they get a cpl relievers.

DG: It's probably too late to do this and no fun at all and total stick-in-the-mud reporter stuff, but I caution folks to start estimating the payroll without more information. The Cardinals only have estimates, and even some of those are changing. So, pinning a budget at the moment should be done with caution, if you must do it at all.

DuffyCT: Thanks for the chat and for all your reporting. Oli gets flack for last year but it was really the failure of the hitters. Any chance Oli gets a pass for last year and possibly 2025?

DG: He got credit for 2024 and the bullpen, and you're right about the offense. I was wondering today how different this winter -- or even this week -- looks if the offense was just league average. We'll never know. A pass for 2025? The Cardinals have goals for 2025. They may not be in the standings, but they will be measured.

Ryan: Pages can’t hit tho. Herrera can. Automated strike zone is getting closer. Also, the metrics says pages has only a slightly better pop time than Herrera or Contreras. This thought that Pages is Johnny bench is so false. No wonder they’re not winning.

DG: I don't recall anyone saying that. Let me go back and check my answer in the chat to see if that's what I said.

It is not.

Joe Sixpack: Derrick please help me out here. Just seems to me that over the past few seasons, the ownership and top brass are not nearly interested in winning as they let onto be. Surely not as interested as the players and fans. What am I and the general public missing with these guys? What gives?

DG: The results. The results. What gives? The moves meant to win did not yield October results. It's all about the results, which color all the moves that come before but aren't known at the time. To me, your criticism -- and this is fine -- is through the lens of hindsight. When the Cardinals commit nearly $100 million to three pitchers to reshape their rotation with veterans and a Cy Young Award runnerup -- how is that "not interested in winning." Am I missing something? Because if those moves didn't suggest a team trying to improve, trying to win then heck they could have pocketed a lot more money and had the same response from fans. Or, take the Nolan Arenado trade. I don't recall a single email I received on reply I got on social media that said that was a move of a team not interested in winning. Quite the opposite. It's just that these moves did not produce October success.

If there is a criticism related to this that lands on the Cardinals, and lands hard it's this: They did not make the next move to vault from contender and NL Central favorite to NL pennant challenger. In the industry, they were viewed as a team that came one more short, one step shy. They had two generational talents at the corner, but they didn't add that superstar starter to lead the rotation, not when they had the chance. Or, when they added Contreras, they didn't couple that with another arm, like say Kyle Gibson a year earlier. They didn't tip over their budget to chase the now, chase the urgency, maximizing the spending with the time they had Goldschmidt-Arenado on the roster together. That's the criticism that lands.

Joe Sixpack: Derrick, this is pure public perception, a perception that I think is prevalent throughout the Cardinal nation. It's not up to you and me to dismiss this public perception. It's up to ownership to overcome this perception. DeWitt does not seem all that concerned about the fans perception.

DG: Like I said ... public perception based on hindsight. And that's fine. No one is faulting that. Still have to recognize that. I didn't see the same "public perception" when the Cardinals traded for Arenado or signed Contreras. Those weren't moves dismissed as a team "not wanting to win." Again, if they were, then why did the Cardinals bother with all that spending? But those moves haven't yielded October results, so it colors all of the perception about them with information we did not have at the time.

DCG: DG, Thank you for your great coverage of the team in this transition phase. Love the recent podcasts, especially, the two-parter with Kevin Wheeler. Count me as one who is really excited about this transition. I've thought it was a few years coming. I've also been thinking about how the Cardinals got to this point, and I wonder how much you believe the loss of the legendary George Kissell contributed to some of the development issues. I know its overstating things, but it seemed like he was a one-man minor league system. I can't think of a Cardinals who succeeded at the big leagues during Kissell's time that didn't directly name him as a critical factor in that success.

DG: I understand where you're coming from -- and your question is a great tribute to Kissell and what he meant to the team. A large part of the Cardinals' success with player development came from a whole group of people who cherished their roles and saw them as tributes to Kissell and that the best way to honor him and all he gave them was to continue passing down his way -- to pay it forward. He was not alone in this. Dave Ricketts was a big part of it. Where things have gone sideways for the Cardinals is the departure of many of those same people -- either due to retirement or reduction of staff. So, it's not one man who left the team that caused this. This wasn't one beacon going out that caused this. Kissell had inspired many others to become their own beacon (DeJohn, Pop Warner, Shildt, Mozeliak, Vuch ... and on) and some of them left, some retired, some were promoted, one was fired. And after the reduction of staff, there just weren't the same structure in place. Staff was stretched thin. Less oversight. The inspiration from Kissell still informed and served the organization well. The lack of staffing did not, the departure of some key figures either from their roles or from the organization was never truly replaced.

Joe 99: Do you ever see MLB allowing draft picks to be swapped? And why the restriction? It seems like an archaic restriction to limit a willing seller and buyer from swapping these assets. Thanks!

DG: I think it's possible at some point. We see the beginnings of it with the swapping of competitive balance picks. The Cardinals did that in a trade not too long ago. They swapped picks with the Rays. I think it would add another layer of strategy to team building, and I always like that possibility.

Jackie: Goldy while historically a very good defender printed a 0 DRS in 2024, which ranked 17th for MLB starting 1B in his age 37 season. Conversely, Burleson was a +1 DRS at 1B in a limited 234 innings, and it is hard to rate Baker as he only had 3 innings at 1B. Point being the drop off may not be as steep a cliff as many believe.

DG: This is fair and welcome information to introduce to the conversation.

Donald N: Derrick, Wondering about the impact of Cardinal brass openly stating they will not be competing for championships in 2025 will be on player effort? Why should the Winn, Burleson, Nootbar, Siani etc, dive, run into walls etc. and risk their careers when ownership says never mind about 2025. Absolutely insane to think you can tank for a year and not impact player effort. Thank-you Donald L

DG: They're playing for their jobs, too. They're pros. Plus, have you ever seen a team told they're not good enough to compete for wins before? The Oakland Athletics just had a season where they were moving at the end -- quite literally not built to win and not even built to stay -- and I don't recall anyone questioning their effort. Did you see their closer? Didn't look to me like he eased the throttle back ... Have we all not seen Major League? Nothing galvanizes a team like being told it cannot win, right?

Ken M: Any chance Jordan Walker is next years first baseman? Open a spot for VS11 in right?

DG: I don't see that as a series of events that happens, no.

Quick update: Cardinals not expected to offer a qualifying offer to any player. This isn't a surprise, as you know.

Matt L: The cardinals most direct path to championship contention is to sign Juan Soto and give Chaim whatever he needs to build up the pitching staff through the farm system over the next 2-4 years. Agree or disagree? Please explain.

DG: Juan Soto also has a say in this. As a free agent. And I believe, all offers being equal, he'd likely go to a place that can win now and later and also now and tomorrow and also now. He has a say.

Oh, and I disagree. What a waste of 2-4 years of Soto's career that would be.

Phil: The Cardinals have a streak going back all the way to 1909, having at least one HOF player in uniform, whether playing or managing, every single season for 116 years (assuming the eventual enshrinement of Pujols and Molina). Since Molina retired, Arenado and Goldschmidt were the two best bets to keep that streak going, but with Goldy's departure and all the talk of possibly trading the team's high-priced stars, is it possible that streak dies in 2025? Would that streak in any way factor into the FO's decision on keeping or trading Arenado? At this point it's hard to see any obvious candidates to keep the run alive otherwise (of course, with the younger guys we can't even guess for several years more), and while you can't run a franchise based on something like that, it sure would be disappointing to see it end.

DG: That streak is real. It goes back to Roger Bresnahan. Mike Shannon challenged me to do the research, and it worked out. I still have the yellow legal pad that I put together to show Shannon that his instinct and feel was correct.

That streak is not a factor in team's decision, alas. As much as I'd like to romance it as a factor, it won't be.

Steve H: If a salary cap is a nonstarter from the union, what do you think would work to "allow all teams to keep their stars, etc"? The only thing that comes to mind for me is some kind of sharing of revenue. And even there, the big markets are always going to stay ahead of the small ones. And the players will of course follow the money.

DG: I am running out of time here and hope that we can explore this in greater depth at some point this winter. Is it too much to ask you ask this question again in an upcoming chat? I think there are some levers that the game could introduce. They could have carve outs for what homegrown players count against the cap -- or a penalty for what free-agent contracts do count against the cap. There is also a new business that is offering an insurance against performance. That is going to be fascinating as the industry opens up to that and the possibilities of teams being protected against a lack of performance on big deals, thus making it more palatable for some smaller teams to pull of those deals. It changes the risk equation. But let's talk about this more ...

Joliet Dave: Ok so the Cardinals want to get back to producing quality MLB ready players as in the past. When that worked, quality proven stars were also brought in and added to the payroll. Holiday,Loshe, Walker,Rolen plenty others. So after this “reset” when does Bloom get to open the checkbook? I’m not getting any younger !

DG: Ownership says that the "checkbook" opens when they have the nucleus of players and player development engine humming so that they are spending to outfit a contending team, one that is a strong contending team, in their opinion. The spending is what puts over the top, not in the mix. That is how it was presented to me.

Millo Miller: Derrick, any sense on how long the DeWitt's are willing for this rebuild to last. A quick turnaround is possible but what if this goes 2 or 3 years. Attendance will probably continue to drop and in turn less business at ballpark village. Are the DeWitt's willing to stomach that? Thank you

DG: That is a great question. That might be the question. And every answer so far has been that it is not expected to be a long-term process. Hence, the use of their word "reset" and not rebuild. Hence, the conversations with a few of their veterans yielding responses of being willing to stick around. Hence, the one-year assignment of Bloom to improve, augment, advance, modernize the farm system and then take over the major-league team. They don't want to happen from a standstill. They want this year to be momentum into Bloom: Year One.

I really appreciate the use of the verb "stomach" here because that was the same verb used by management for several years.

So how long can they "stomach" a rebuild?

Well, they're braced for a downturn in ticket sales, and they don't want that to linger into another year beyond this one. They are possibly looking at launching their own TV network or at least having to handle that through MLB and thus a subscription model that they'll need to generate enthusiasm and subscribers for -- and I know a thing about generating interest from subscribers! -- and how do they market that for 2026 without having a product fans want to see. All of these influences seem to suggest that the "puke point" for a "reset" isn't measured in presidential terms, and maybe not even representative terms.

(And there is my election week allusion.)

Time to move on to covering things for the next day's paper. Look for plenty of coverage coming from the San Antonio throughout this week. Chaim Bloom is walking through the lobby here. The Cardinals brass is present.

Stay tuned.